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This is the forum frequently asked questions section and will always be a work in progress.

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Several reason's have lead me to create this forum but the biggest is the over moderation and censorship on previous forums that I have visited has inspired to to create a forum solely about today's politics. Today's politics are more controversial than they ever have been and …

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 What do you think?

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coyoteslayer
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 11:40 am

fatbass wrote:
coyoteslayer wrote:
I agree, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere because history has shown that when a society lowers it's moral standards then society falls apart.

There is substantial evidence that other factors also negatively influence advanced societies, not just the failure of religions to control the thoughts and actions of the populace.

ok, I'm all ears....give a few examples of these other factors that negatively influence advanced societies?

Religions don't try to control the thought and actions of society because everyone has their free agency, but they do give you guidelines that if you live a certain way then you will be a lot happier versus your other options.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:09 pm

proutdoors wrote:
I was wrong. Embarassed
lol!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:16 pm

coyoteslayer wrote:
Religions don't try to control the thought and actions of society because everyone has their free agency, but they do give you guidelines that if you live a certain way then you will be a lot happier versus your other options.
Making such activities prohibited by law, which IS government is a tad bit more than 'guidelines', it is coercion. Coercion is not possibly in a free society, certainly not in terms of individual actions that have no direct impact on others. That 'fine line in the sand' gets blurred when the people ask the government to enforce certain morals but not others. How do you avoid crossing the line once it has been approached? Remember, the line is on the edge of a very steep slope.
This same slippery slope applies in regards to abortion, therefor I contend the line shouldn't be drawn. How can a fetus "not be human"? It either is from the onset or it isn't at any time. An apple seed will never become anything but an apple, no matter how much wishing one does. It is what it is.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:17 pm

Nibble Nuts wrote:
proutdoors wrote:
I was wrong. Embarassed
lol!
Quiet in the pea nut gallery. silent

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:19 pm

Pete wrote:

To me, the issue is at what point between a fertilized egg and birth does a human being come into existence. I have a hard time considering an amorphous, barely differentiated blob of a few hundred cells as a human being, but I'm at a loss as to what point during pregnancy this person-in-the-making becomes an actual human being. Some people consider it to be at conception, the Supreme Court has implied that it's after the first trimester and others say it's not until the baby is born, but I don't know. I don't feel comfortable with anything on this subject.
[b]

A new being comes into existence right after conception. That is when genetic splicing takes place between the mother's and the father's chromosomes, creating a new genetic blueprint for that child's cells. If this child were somehow just a part of the mother's body, then we could examine them both on a cellular level to find that the DNA of each were the same, for it would be true that every cell of the mother's body would bear the same DNA. But alas, that child already has it's own DNA blueprint, therefore those cells are not a part of the mother's body that she can do with as she pleases. As for calling this new fetus barely differentiated, I cannot understand. This new child is already as differentiated from it's parents as you and I are, it just needs more time to replicate more cells to become the individual being we can see with our own eyes. That is my take on the issue.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:21 pm

If yall want to discuss abortion great, but please make a post in the National issue section, I am trying get get feedback and this turns into an abortion issue, jeez!!! Suspect

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:25 pm

CS, your concerns are my concerns, and has been the biggest obstacle for me in coming into the light. Here is the rub, just because something is legal does NOT mean it is moral or condoned by society. The war on drugs as been going on for how long, and what have we gained from it? I mean besides BILLIONS of dollars wasted, drug cartels/gangs that are funded almost exclusively from prohibited vices (drugs/prostitution/gambling/porn). The best way to get rid of cockroaches isn't to sweep them under the rug, but to shine the light on them. Most organized crime would become very unprofitable if their cash cows were legalized. That doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to these vices once they have been brought out into the sunshine. This is where the churches and community leaders warn of the evils of these vices and educate them on the dangers of falling trap to them. You will NEVER hear me condone the use of illicit drugs, or even marijuana, or even gambling, rather I will be vocal in why such vices should be avoided.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:25 pm

Yonni wrote:
If yall want to discuss abortion great, but please make a post in the National issue section, I am trying get get feedback and this turns into an abortion issue, jeez!!! Suspect
Alrighty then.

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:33 pm

Quote :
Coercion is not possibly in a free society, certainly not in terms of individual actions that have no direct impact on others.

The bold part of your statement is the key because most people's actions affect families, friends, and other people, therefore, laws need to get set in place.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:44 pm

coyoteslayer wrote:
Quote :
Coercion is not possibly in a free society, certainly not in terms of individual actions that have no direct impact on others.

The bold part of your statement is the key because most people's actions affect families, friends, and other people, therefore, laws need to get set in place.

So is there a fine line where a law is needed or a law infringing on personal rights? If there is a line where is it? We have the Constitution as a blueprint, but how does it apply in today's issues?

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What's really needed here are a few articulate liberals, atheists, Maoists, illegal aliens and itinerant bed wetters to argue their various points of view in a thoughtful and convincing manner.

voiceofreason wrote:
Thou Shalt Stay On TOPIC or Risk banishment to the long burning LAKE OF YONNI!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 pm

Per Yonni's request, I started a new thread on this. flower

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:45 pm

coyoteslayer wrote:
I agree, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere because history has shown that when a society lowers it's moral standards then society falls apart.
Standard differ from one society to the next. There are many standards and mores that remain remarkably constant from one society to the next, but others differ considerably.

Certain members of Islamic societies, for example, think that societal corruption ensues when women are allowed to show their faces in public or expose an ankle. In western society, recreational drug use was not regarded as an especially important societal issue until just the past hundred years or so. The Marquesas Islands polyandrous society regarded female promiscuity as an important structural element of their culture. Mormon polygamy was regarded by most of the 1800s U.S. population as being morally repugnant and societally unacceptable. Slavery was tolerated in the U.S. for many years, and black people were counted as only fractional, non-equivalents to caucasians. Many sub-Saharan African and Melanesian cultures regard public nudity as perfectly normal.

I agree that a society that has lost its moral compass is a society in danger of decline. Still, societal mores are somewhat fluid and malleable. They change and evolve over time, and this fluidity is not necessarily a sign of lowered standards so much as it is an indication of societal adaptability.

Prohibitions and cultural inhibitions against murder, thievery and general dishonesty, for example, are more or less universal across all societies, and all societies have drawn various lines in the sand regarding these behaviors. Mores associated with things like drug use, gambling, prostitution, homosexuality, slavery, polygamy, etc., are more transitory and are subject to the ebb and flow of normal societal changes in attitude.

Drawing legal lines in the sand on these sorts of lesser or transitory moral values are mostly just attempts by one group to impose their particular moral values on others with differing values. Legislation designed to enforce the morality of one group at the expense of another group's moral compass never succeeds. Instead, it drives a polarizing wedge into society that precipitates adverse consequences that far exceed the supposed societal gain.

Government has no business passing laws against individual stupidity and irresponsible personal behavior. In the West, religions and churches have typically been the arbiters of what constitutes morally acceptable behavior by the members of their organizations. Over the past few decades, however, there has seemingly been a mad rush to transfer this traditional church role to the government and to pass legislation that attempts to make criminals out of those who 100 years ago would have simply been labeled as sinners.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:47 pm

proutdoors wrote:
CS, your concerns are my concerns, and has been the biggest obstacle for me in coming into the light. Here is the rub, just because something is legal does NOT mean it is moral or condoned by society. The war on drugs as been going on for how long, and what have we gained from it? I mean besides BILLIONS of dollars wasted, drug cartels/gangs that are funded almost exclusively from prohibited vices (drugs/prostitution/gambling/porn). The best way to get rid of cockroaches isn't to sweep them under the rug, but to shine the light on them. Most organized crime would become very unprofitable if their cash cows were legalized. That doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to these vices once they have been brought out into the sunshine. This is where the churches and community leaders warn of the evils of these vices and educate them on the dangers of falling trap to them. You will NEVER hear me condone the use of illicit drugs, or even marijuana, or even gambling, rather I will be vocal in why such vices should be avoided.

You might get rid of one problem, but you would creating several other major problems by legalizing drugs. People would have easy access to drugs thus causing more problems in human society. It would also affect the families that watch their drug addict son/daughter explore with drugs. Crime rates would go up because people will be trying more hardcore drugs and in order to feed their addiction they will commit crimes. Because many won't be able to hold a steady job because of their drug addictions. This is why employers try to avoid hiring these people. They want people they can count on.

We all know that prostitution/gambling/porn ALL will destoy families which is the main structure of society because it all starts with families.

We should be at war with the drug cartel in Mexico, but yet we sit back and do NOTHING as many Americans and Mexicans are killed on a daily basis. 1,200 troops plus the boarder patrol isn't enough to ultimately fix the problem. Our military has the power to take care of business if the politicians would get out of the away so we can unleash the dogs.


Last edited by coyoteslayer on Sun May 30, 2010 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Pete
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:48 pm

Yonni wrote:
If yall want to discuss abortion great, but please make a post in the National issue section, I am trying get get feedback and this turns into an abortion issue, jeez!!! Suspect
The "over moderation" and "censorship" has already begun. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:56 pm

Pete wrote:
Yonni wrote:
If yall want to discuss abortion great, but please make a post in the National issue section, I am trying get get feedback and this turns into an abortion issue, jeez!!! Suspect
The "over moderation" and "censorship" has already begun. Wink
Now that's funny! affraid

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 12:58 pm

Pete wrote:
Yonni wrote:
If yall want to discuss abortion great, but please make a post in the National issue section, I am trying get get feedback and this turns into an abortion issue, jeez!!! Suspect
The "over moderation" and "censorship" has already begun. Wink

Don't make me ban you Pete Shocked Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 1:10 pm

coyoteslayer wrote:
proutdoors wrote:
CS, your concerns are my concerns, and has been the biggest obstacle for me in coming into the light. Here is the rub, just because something is legal does NOT mean it is moral or condoned by society. The war on drugs as been going on for how long, and what have we gained from it? I mean besides BILLIONS of dollars wasted, drug cartels/gangs that are funded almost exclusively from prohibited vices (drugs/prostitution/gambling/porn). The best way to get rid of cockroaches isn't to sweep them under the rug, but to shine the light on them. Most organized crime would become very unprofitable if their cash cows were legalized. That doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to these vices once they have been brought out into the sunshine. This is where the churches and community leaders warn of the evils of these vices and educate them on the dangers of falling trap to them. You will NEVER hear me condone the use of illicit drugs, or even marijuana, or even gambling, rather I will be vocal in why such vices should be avoided.

You might get rid of one problem, but you would creating several other major problems by legalizing drugs. People would have easy access to drugs thus causing more problems in human society. It would also affect the families that watch their drug addict son/daughter explore with drugs. Crime rates would go up because people will be trying more hardcore drugs and in order to feed their addiction they will commit crimes. Because many won't be able to hold a steady job because of their drug addictions. This is why employers try to avoid hiring these people. They want people they can count on.

We all know that prostitution/gambling/porn ALL will destoy families which is the main structure of society because it all starts with families.

We should be at war with the drug cartel in Mexico, but yet we sit back and do NOTHING as many Americans and Mexicans are killed on a daily basis. 1,200 troops plus the boarder patrol isn't enough to ultimately fix the problem. Our military has the power to take care of business if the politicians would get out of the away so we can unleash the dogs.

Your views on legalization of drugs is nothing more than conjecture and misinformation. Millions of otherwise upstanding Americans partake of various substances with no harm done to another soul so your arguments ring hollow.

Pete was spot-on in his analysis of cultural mores. He beat me to the punch.

Just curious...Why not usher in Sharia Law? It fulfills all of your religio-fascist visions of a "moral" society. Death penalty for drug or alcohol use, fornication, failure to pray...it sounds like just the kind of perfect place for you, CS.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 1:15 pm

Please continue this discussion in the politics section, it's a great discussion but it's on the wrong forum topic and I don't know how to move individual posts around yet, so please help me by putting your discussion in the appropriate section, thanks a ton!!
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coyoteslayer
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 1:16 pm

Quote :
Just curious...Why not usher in Sharia Law? It fulfills all of your religio-fascist visions of a "moral" society. Death penalty for drug or alcohol use, fornication, failure to pray...it sounds like just the kind of perfect place for you, CS.

You need to learn to read because I never applied "Sharia Law." Like I said people have their free agency. BTW if you haven't noticed this argument has been moved to another thread.

But now that you mention it..... a death penalty for fatbass.... cheers lol! lol! I'm teasing.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 3:11 pm

Love the site Yonni!!!!! Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 8:25 pm

Great Job Yonni!!

Now we can have a political discussion on a forum, that can be itemized by type of discussion, COOL!!

This gif elephant kinda looks like a dong though.....
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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Sun May 30, 2010 10:22 pm

Yonni,

One more thing, maybe you could define necrosis under the title instead of "a place to vent about current events". That much is obvious...... Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: What do you think?   Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 am

Tears of joy that brother Yonni has created an online church where we can all come to worship. "A-Freaking-Men." ~ Provolone cheers
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