Education

So, 2 of my three kids started school this week and education is a great concern to my wife and I. There have been several articles written this past week due to Jed Bush coming to town. Interesting how each news entity had a different take.

KSL- http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=12150074&hl=9
- they focused on class size
- 50 million to reduce classroom size by one, WTF, that number seems very extreme to me

SLTRIB- http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50160273-76/schools-florida-utah-bush.html.csp
- grade each school, can we grade our government?

All the others just reported the basics of what was discussed. Anyways I just thought this would be a great discussion, there is plenty in these two articles to discuss!

I home school my three youngest kids. Only the oldest goes to public school. She is a senior and is my step-daughter, so I was over-ruled on pulling her from public school. I see far more negatives to public education than positives, and I can't think of a scenario where I will willingly send my kids back into that cesspool known as the public school system!

Class size has NO correlation to the quality of education a child gets. This is nothing more than a vehicle used by the unions to get more funding, which means more control/power.

Curious Pro, if your kids decide they want to go to public school, it that an option or no?

Were you schooled at home yourself?

What do you think are the advantages of educating children in the home? How does a home schooled child get a diploma and start looking at higher education?

Do you think a child schooled at home has the same level of opportunities that exist in a public or private school, both educational and social? I'm assuming you don't profess to have the ability to teach every subject offered in a public high school i.e. calculus, honors classes, AP classses, various arts etc.

Are you ever concerned that your children will not be prepared for the outside world when they are cut loose from the nest?


Sorry for all the questions but I find the home school idea to be a curious one. One of the (many) fundemental differences between my ex-wife and I was that she wanted to home school our 2 children and I did not think it was a good idea. I won that battle when I got full custody after our divorce. My kids love school and do very well, even my son with ADHD who just started 7th grade last week. I have had a very good overall experience with all the teachers and administrators I have dealt with in the Alpine school district. What are your main issues with public education?

Great post pro.

Holy Shit!!!!!! Reminds me of AMERICAN HISTORY X

voiceofreason wrote:

Holy Shit!!!!!! Reminds me of AMERICAN HISTORY X

Why? Because you watch the prison shower scene over and over and just can't get it out of your head?

Gordy, I had to do a google search to figure out what you were referring to. I must confess to having never watched that movie.

As for your reference to said movie, what did I post that scares you so? Is it that I am not willing to be satisfied with mediocrity in regards to education for my children? Or is it that I am not willing to let my kids be taught how to be like the rest of the sheeple? A very successful mentor of mine has a saying: "If you want to be successful, don't do what everyone else is doing." I want my kids to be successful, so my wife and I are willing to do what we can to give them every possible tool to become whatever they wish in life. Rather than being satisfied by the public schools being glorified baby-sitters who instill values/morals that differ from ours, we spend time each evening preparing the next days lessons for our kids. This does a few excellent things; 1]It gives us more time together working on a common cause. 2]Teaching our kids at home allows my wife, whose time on this orb is short, to spend more time molding her children and instilling fond memories of their loving mother that would be missed if they were shipped to the germ factory. 3]We get to KNOW that are kids are learning and progressing toward adulthood with solid values/morals/insight/wisdom that will give them an edge over those who are simply dropped off at the school each day.

If that seems radical/extreme to you, I am GLAD. That means we are not following the masses, which is a GOOD thing.

I would challenge every one of you to take this flick in... It's R so leave the kids out.

Definitely top 5 in my cinema library!!! Would do 99% of you some good!!!

FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW



BART.. this has nothing to do with being sheeple. Has everything to do with life and the way we as humanity co-exist. What if your kids end up working for an employer that happens to be part of a union??? What if stem cell research turns out a cure for cancer and you have an affected loved one??? Are you going to stick to your extremist guns and watch them die??? If you did I'd shoot you myself and get them treatment!!!

This is the other side of life you are taking upon yourself to DECIDE for your loved ones... No Free Agency, no freedom, total dictatorship and basically spoonfed Bart propaganda. Not very LIBERTARIAN now are we???

If we raise our kids with our values and give them freedom to choose and MAKE HUGE MISTAKES WITHOUT BEING BAILED EVERY TIME THE SHIT HITS THE FAN we as a society will have less brain dead victims and more members of society that don't have to have their hands held to take a piss!!! If we as parents do this right the proper values morals and responsibilities will be instilled and life will be great for all.

My kids were private schooled through Elementary and I'll tell ya that both are excelling. One academics comes easy the other not so much!!! Now if I wanted to be a little bitch I could blame public schools, public school teachers, or curriculum on her short comings... Personally as an engaged parent I MAKE SURE shit gets done!!! I'm not a victim and neither is she.


My Father taught in the Public School system for over 50 years and my wife has taught privately for over 10. Let me know next time when you need an opinion on education.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions Pro. You have left me with little doubt that you and your wife are doing a great job educating and raising your children. Many of the shortcomings you outlined with the public school system are undeniable but the number one shortcoming is with the parents. Any parent who thinks they can send their kid off to school and expect them to receive an education without any further involvement is sadly mistaken. With my son's additional needs I know this all too well.

I know of a family where several of the children were taught at home. Thir education was clearly lacking and a few of them made very poor life choices early on (teen pregnancy) and none of them pursued any type of higher education.

You are correct that in the age of information there are many more educational resources than ever with the inrternet and software programs so I can see where a parent utilizing this technology has many advantages over home schoolers of the past. Sounds like you are doing it right.

One other question I have is do you teach your kids about things that you may not personally believe in? I don't profess to know your personal beliefs but for example, if you are a devout christian who believes in the old testament do you teach them about evolution or ancient history that is in direct contradiction to the bible? Are certain subjects that are taught in school one of your motivating factors in pulling your kids out and teaching them at home?

ScottyP wrote:

One other question I have is do you teach your kids about things that you may not personally believe in? I don't profess to know your personal beliefs but for example, if you are a devout christian who believes in the old testament do you teach them about evolution or ancient history that is in direct contradiction to the bible? Are certain subjects that are taught in school one of your motivating factors in pulling your kids out and teaching them at home?

Our kids have a curriculum that meets the standards by the state. AN example: We are teaching our kids from a history manual published by Oxford University Press. It is titled; "A History of Us". On page 13 it states the following: "About 50,000 years ago, two kinds of upright creatures walked the earth. Both were part of a species known as Homo Sapiens, which means "thinking man." Some where Neanderthals; some were Homo sapiens sapiens. The Neanderthals had husky builds and big brains. About 35,000 years ago, Neanderthals disappeared. We don't know why. The other creatures were our ancestors."
I have NO problem teaching this to my kids. We then break open the scriptures and having some dang good conversations. I let the girls ask the questions, and draw their own conclusions.
There are things taught in the public school system that are taught as fact instead of opinion/theory that I take issue with, that is true. Things like global warming being scientific 'fact' is an example. Teaching that the Founders were Deists and all were greedy slave owners is another. Teaching that FDR was a great president that ended the Great Depression, instead of teaching of the great harm he did to individual liberty is yet another. But, the overlying factor was allowing our kids to learn in an environment that allowed them to thrive and give them the ability to make their strengths stronger and their weaknesses strengths. Both my daughters HATED math a year ago, now they LOVE it. They both love learning history, and we often spend extra time discussing history and how it relates to current events.

Dude the green font is un readable... I imagine that you called me about every name in the book..... GOOD!!!

Alright I pasted your rant in to a readable scenario...



"If that seems radical/extreme to you, I am GLAD. That means we are not following the masses, which is a GOOD thing."

So you can say that you are radical and extreme but when some smart ass like me AMPLIFIES it you suddenly get offended??? What is it Bart a badge of honor or a scarlet letter???

"There are things taught in the public school system that are taught as fact instead of opinion/theory that I take issue with, that is true"

"Teaching that FDR was a great president that ended the Great Depression, instead of teaching of the great harm he did to individual liberty is yet another"

Your opinion right??? Not Propaganda??? FACT???

Look I have enough respect for you that I would never call you a little bitch..
that was in reference to the parents that look at their kids failing report cards
and wonder why the system has failed them. Bailing kids out goes along the same lines. Let kids fail. Let kids learn how to think for themselves. MAKE KIDS STRETCH THEIR COMFORT ZONES. Can ya honestly tell me the kids get that same challenge being schooled by Mom and Dad??? Can ya tell me that your kids learn how to deal with that bully, ask a girl to a dance, learn and see what drugs and alcohol are all about, learn how to recognize bullshit when it's presented to them??? Have their hearts broken?? it's all part of life which is all about education.

Weather you agree or not public education has it's place. Public education has
produced millions of GREAT AMERICANS and will produce millions more!!!


RESPOND OR NOT!!!

WHATEVER

voiceofreason wrote:

Look I have enough respect for you that I would never call you a little bitch..
that was in reference to the parents that look at their kids failing report cards
and wonder why the system has failed them. Bailing kids out goes along the same lines. Let kids fail. Let kids learn how to think for themselves. MAKE KIDS STRETCH THEIR COMFORT ZONES. Can ya honestly tell me the kids get that same challenge being schooled by Mom and Dad??? Can ya tell me that your kids learn how to deal with that bully, ask a girl to a dance, learn and see what drugs and alcohol are all about, learn how to recognize bullshit when it's presented to them??? Have their hearts broken?? it's all part of life which is all about education.

I guess I can see how you were calling people in general little bitches and not me directly. So, I accept your explanation.
As for being challenged more at a public school more than from mom and dad; while I can't/won't speak for others, I can promise you my kids are challenged far more by Mom than from the teachers at the local public school. As for learning how to deal with a bully, I think what it taught in regards to bullies and how to deal with them is ALL WRONG in the public school system. I'll give an example: My oldest son is now 20, when he was in the 6th grade he was being bullied by a bigger kid EVERY day. My son talked to his teacher repeatedly with ZERO results. His mother then talked to the Principle with ZERO results. Finally my son talked to me about it, I was a non-custodial parent. I taught him how to defend himself over the weekend. On Monday the kid came up and tried his usual stuff and my son punched him in the sternum, cracking it and sending the kid to the hospital. My son was 4 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter, and had repeatedly went to those in charge with his care while on school property, yet when my son defended himself he was suspended for TWO WEEKS and was forced to promise to never do such an act again (I said hell no, but his mother agreed to the terms!). Now I ask, what did my son 'learn' from the wise public school system on how to deal with bullies? As for asking/being asked to a dance, my two girls will get plenty of such offers, that I have no doubt of. IN fact, I worry they will get asked far too often and my lectures of what awaits them if they act inappropriately toward my daughter(s) will fall on deaf ears. Also, apparently your reading comprehension is as poor as your spelling abilities, as I clearly mentioned my kids will likely be taking 'advanced' and AP classes at the local public school, as well as most likely playing high school sports. So, they will get plenty of 'exposure' to all those quality things you seem so concerned about like drugs and alcohol, since seem to think I am locking my kids in a bunker and shunning them from human contact other than Mom and I. Thanks for being so concerned for my kids that you want teachers to look out for their welfare instead of their PARENTS!

voiceofreason wrote:

Weather you agree or not public education has it's place. Public education has
produced millions of GREAT AMERICANS and will produce millions more!!!

Your grammar is an example of one reason I wish to avoid a public education for my kids. It has also produced as many/more deadbeats, freeloaders as "GREAT AMERICANS. At one time America's education system was on par/higher than most other nations, but NOT today. Now, thanks to unions and progressives, our public education system is lacking and extremely wasteful. If you are happy with the state of public education, you are in the 'extreme' minority. The system is so poor that a kid with even average intelligence can sleep walk themselves to an A average. I want, no I DEMAND, more from my kids than what the current public education system offers.

voiceofreason wrote:

RESPOND OR NOT!!!

WHATEVER

Nice attitude! Glad to see where I stand with you.