Sorry, but banks DID cause the mortgage meltdown

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proutdoors wrote:: Honesty and loyalty are major factors, no doubt. But, one doesn't open a business to 'make' honesty and loyalty, they open a business to make a PROFIT! Those are traits that help a company make a PROFIT, and to be able to sustain profitability long term. The drive for PROFIT has lead to great inventions, and a better standard of living for everyone. Greed has always been a great motivator, it is when greed goes unchecked we have problems, and when the greediest of all reside in the government things are sure to get ugly. Greed for power is what drives Washington DC, and that is the case for BOTH parties!

99% correct. You can't have PROFIT UNTILL YOU HAVE THOSE TWO TRAITS along with several others.

People / Inventors create goods and services to do something better. If a person started a business with the sole purpose of getting rich they are doomed, cause sooner or later the GREED you spoke of will override the other factors.

Ask any successful business owner why they started their business and I'll bet
the monetary aspect is well down the list.

voiceofreason wrote:: Mr. BASS. Why can't you quit while you are ahead??? I knew nobody in their
right mind would fire an employee they've worked with for 20 years to save $24.00
a day.

So like I said LOYALTY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFIT..

Looking at your reply to the second question it also appears that HONESTY and PERSONAL INTEGRITY come in ahead of PROFIT.

You obviously have reading comprehension inadequacies. Without profit that loyal employee HAS NO JOB. Moron.

OK Jerry Reinsdorf..... And without Michael Jordan the Chicago Bulls
would still have hands full of championship rings right???

MORON

voiceofreason wrote:: OK Jerry Reinsdorf..... And without Michael Jordan the Chicago Bulls
would still have hands full of championship rings right???

MORON

I like it when you sign your posts like that. Cool

voiceofreason wrote:: OK Jerry Reinsdorf..... And without Michael Jordan the Chicago Bulls
would still have hands full of championship rings right???

Let's use another sports analogy; The 49ers won four Super Bowls with arguably the greatest QB is NFL history...Joe Montana. While Montana was still in his prime, the Niners traded for Steve Young, and then while Montana was still winning, they traded him to KC. What did this GREED result with? That's right, another Super Bowl victory and another Hall of Fame QB. Loyalty is all good, but what good is loyalty if you are unsuccessful? As for Jordon, how did this EMPLOYEE show loyalty to his employer? You focus on the expected loyalty of the employer, but mention no such expectations of loyalty from the employees......Why is that? scratch

voiceofreason wrote:: [You can't have PROFIT UNTILL YOU HAVE THOSE TWO TRAITS along with several others.

People / Inventors create goods and services to do something better. If a person started a business with the sole purpose of getting rich they are doomed, cause sooner or later the GREED you spoke of will override the other factors.

Ask any successful business owner why they started their business and I'll bet
the monetary aspect is well down the list.

No, profits are determined by many things, but honesty and loyalty are NOT mandatory.

Sure, may businesses start by the desire to merely provide services, or for value exchange. But, only charities open shop without being focused on the profit margin. I personally know several VERY successful business owners, and ALL of them have told me that profit is a primary concern. The only thing they mentioned as a higher priority is the ability to do what they want, when they want. Here is the kicker, they wouldn't be able to do what they want, when they want for very long if they didn't turn a PROFIT! Why would someone risk so much, and why would someone be willing to spend 16+ hour days, merely for "loyalty and honesty"?

PRO SAID
"Profit and loss is the ONLY form of regulation that is truly 'fair'."

I called Bullshiz,

I SAID
"Mr. BASS, so if you were running a business and you had a 20 plus year employee would you fire him to hire a kid that you could pay $3.00 less an hour??"

How does an employee that invests 20 years in a business not equal anything BUT LOYALTY???

Look you idiots are giving me a headache.. You'll always put the cart before the horse and nothing I can say will pull you out of your neo-conservative wet dream.

voiceofreason wrote:: PRO SAID
"Profit and loss is the ONLY form of regulation that is truly 'fair'."

I called Bullshiz,

I SAID
"Mr. BASS, so if you were running a business and you had a 20 plus year employee would you fire him to hire a kid that you could pay $3.00 less an hour??"

I'll restate my answer using different words. YES, I would replace the more expensive worker if it meant I get to keep my business open. I would NOT fire the older worker unless the added cost of his wages meant I would go bankrupt. My reasoning is that NONE of us 3 would benefit if the business is closed. In other words, a closed business pays no one. In other words, if there is no profit, I have no reason to continue to do business and if I am doing no business, then I have no need for employees. In case you didn't get that, there are no employees without employers and no employers without profits. To reiterate; A business that turns no profit will go bankrupt, therefore neither the employer nor the employees get paid. In the real world, that is considered bad although I'm sure you'll have some rebuttal right out of Hugo Chavez' or Che Guevara's biographies.

How does an employee that invests 20 years in a business not equal anything BUT LOYALTY???

Look you idiots are giving me a headache.. You'll always put the cart before the horse and nothing I can say will pull you out of your neo-conservative wet dream.

Back in the mid - late 80's I was involved in commercial construction.
Vacancy rates were through the roof and new construction was almost
non existent. The contracts that were for bid had margins so tight that to scrape
out more than time and materials was far and few between.

I worked for a company / owner that understood and gave me the philosophy
I have. We would go for several days, weeks some times without bid job to be
at. Every day we showed up to work and had work to do. Either remodeling the office or the owners properties. Not one employee missed one day of work or were laid off for one hour.

This loyalty from the owners was repaid by the employees by returning all of our vacation time back to the company. The owner didn't ask for this, it was simply the right thing to do. By the end of the year we all had our vacation days back.

Now your numbers only philosophy would have doomed this company. The second or third bid we lost the owner could have said screw it like you and PRO would have done and been bankrupt failures.

Thank God the owner had enough sense to realize that his employees were
more valuable than a column of numbers on a spreadsheet and rode out the storm. This company has been handed down to the second generation and is
enjoying around 50 years in business.

You'll never in a million years understand

How many employers can afford to keep people on the payroll when no funds are coming in? You are right on one thing, I will never understand why people think they are owed anything except what they have EARNED. No one is 'owed' a house, a 'higher' education, a high paying job...a job at all for that matter, happiness, health.

voiceofreason wrote:: Back in the mid - late 80's I was involved in commercial construction.
Vacancy rates were through the roof and new construction was almost
non existent. The contracts that were for bid had margins so tight that to scrape
out more than time and materials was far and few between.

I worked for a company / owner that understood and gave me the philosophy
I have. We would go for several days, weeks some times without bid job to be
at. Every day we showed up to work and had work to do. Either remodeling the office or the owners properties. Not one employee missed one day of work or were laid off for one hour.

This loyalty from the owners was repaid by the employees by returning all of our vacation time back to the company. The owner didn't ask for this, it was simply the right thing to do. By the end of the year we all had our vacation days back.

Now your numbers only philosophy would have doomed this company. The second or third bid we lost the owner could have said screw it like you and PRO would have done and been bankrupt failures.

Thank God the owner had enough sense to realize that his employees were
more valuable than a column of numbers on a spreadsheet and rode out the storm. This company has been handed down to the second generation and is
enjoying around 50 years in business.

You'll never in a million years understand

Cool story, bro! Laughing

You never saw the books, did you? I guarantee he wasn't paycheck to paycheck. He bid smart enough to have reserve cash or you would have been laid off.

And VOR thinks himself to be an adult. rabbit

Be a good boy VOR. Run along play with the children. It is my sincere desire that the bed time stories will provide you with some real learning that you can use in social studies class when you get all growed up. study

Honestly, can't you discuss a topic with taking someone elses comments out of context? scratch

Lets take a poll: Who sits on his thumb and spins things out of context? berg or vor?

fatbass wrote:

voiceofreason wrote:: Mr. BERG since the chances of you actually understanding my reply to
your idiotic inquiry are well below the 10% line I didn't want to waste my limited typing skills.

But I'll break out a crayon just for you, and I'll try to dumb it down.

Your mental equal Mr. PRO is of the opinion that if you let these fine individuals
like Madhoff and the Enron boys run without Govt. interference they will continually do what is, first, Moral, Second, responsible and third in the best interest of the owners / shareholders of the business.

Now MILLIONS of small and large businesses do exactly that every day, just like my not so evil employer. They turn a profit to pay my wages. They are of high enough MORAL CHARACTER that they would do this with or without regulations. Thats why they have a succesful business.

What people of your simple black and white ( or profit and loss ) mental condition don't get and never will get is that profit and loss have very little to do with the success of a product or company.

You can make a ton of profit ONE TIME. Just like the criminal bankers did. So under your definition this is all that matters or should matter. They got paid their books look great, right?? All profit no loss the company is booming and they got paid. This is where your reasoning ends.

I'm literally speechless at this degree of business ignorance. Shocked

Speechless pretty much sums it all up! Laughing

In addition: BANKS DID NOT CAUSE THE MORTGAGE MELTDOWN!

"You never saw the books, did you? I guarantee he wasn't paycheck to paycheck. He bid smart enough to have reserve cash or you would have been laid off."

Bassy his books were none of my business...

He did bid smart enough to be able to go THROUGH TIMES WHERE BREAKING EVEN WAS THE RULE NOT THE EXCEPTION!!! What do you think I've been trying to tell you dumb EFF'S???

Following your logic the minute he started just covering wages and his pay
he should have pulled the plug. Thats nonsense. Thats pure business suicide.

Also following your logic high profits equate with success. In my current occupation we see this crap continously... Remember IKON Office Systems??

The employees gave them the moniker I Know Only Numbers.

They lasted for about 3 years and made some decent profits??? Have you heard of them lately??? Their numbers only philosophy didn't play in my industry and it sure didn't play for anybody that worked for them either.
How is a company supposed to function with no employees?? Profit strangled their wages. Parts availability or their reluctance to properly provide parts because it was an expense did them in.

Yeah PROFIT PLAYS A KEY ROLE but it is so far from the top it ain't funny..

BERG cuddle back up with your woobie and I'll let you know when we discuss who is tougher Bert Ernie or Elmo..

voiceofreason wrote:: "...Yeah PROFIT PLAYS A KEY ROLE but it is so far from the top it ain't funny..."

We've made a breakthrough! I'm so proud of you. Have an Oreo and take the rest of the day off, vot. Wink

VOT it would simply be best if your mamma filled you a bottle full of Similak and put you down for a month long nap. I simply don't see much improvement. drunken

Well, maybe just a tiny bit, but that's all. He certainly doesn't deserve an Oreo. Maybe a small rice cake, but not an Oreo.

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