A 'Moral' Government

[quote="Nibble Nuts"]

coyoteslayer wrote:

That is very true, but the problem is.......Some people have ruined it for the rest of us like yourself that live your lifestyle responsible. We would have fewer laws if everyone would use common sense and not do stupid things.

So therefore we need the government to save us from ourselves
Is your real name Nancy Pelosi?

I guess Nibble nuts has been gone so long that he cannot read. He reminds me of Obama and Eric Holder than voice their opinion without reading something first.[/quote]

Yes the government aka "We the People" have to babysit some people that cannot go through life without being arrested for doing stupid things.

A Police officer has a lot of job security because there will never be a shortage of crime.

coyoteslayer wrote:

Nibble Nuts wrote:

So CS, based on your last post, you agree than that the government has no role as our moral enforcer, but as a protector of our individual rights outlined in the constitution, based on the premise that our rights come from God and are inalienable. To beat one's wife is an infringement of her God bestowed rights, so is killing or injuring others while driving drunk.

Well the government shouldn't be the moral enforcer, but because of the irresponsible people that exist on the planet that cause harm to other individuals because of life's choice then it leaves the government no other choice, but become the moral enforcer. You can blame all the idiots in the world for that.

So because someone didn't wear their seatbelt, had an accident and was horribly disfigured, we all must now live with the threat of harassment and fines if we choose not to wear ours?

fatbass wrote:

So because someone didn't wear their seatbelt, had an accident and was horribly disfigured, we all must now live with the threat of harassment and fines if we choose not to wear ours?

According to Nancy, yes...

[quote="coyoteslayer"]

Nibble Nuts wrote:

coyoteslayer wrote:

That is very true, but the problem is.......Some people have ruined it for the rest of us like yourself that live your lifestyle responsible. We would have fewer laws if everyone would use common sense and not do stupid things.

So therefore we need the government to save us from ourselves
Is your real name Nancy Pelosi?

I guess Nibble nuts has been gone so long that he cannot read. He reminds me of Obama and Eric Holder than voice their opinion without reading something first.[/quote]

Yes the government aka "We the People" have to babysit some people that cannot go through life without being arrested for doing stupid things.

A Police officer has a lot of job security because there will never be a shortage of crime.

There is no shortage of crime because moralists have criminalized personal liberties.

[quote="fatbass"]

coyoteslayer wrote:

Nibble Nuts wrote:

coyoteslayer wrote:

That is very true, but the problem is.......Some people have ruined it for the rest of us like yourself that live your lifestyle responsible. We would have fewer laws if everyone would use common sense and not do stupid things.

So therefore we need the government to save us from ourselves
Is your real name Nancy Pelosi?

I guess Nibble nuts has been gone so long that he cannot read. He reminds me of Obama and Eric Holder than voice their opinion without reading something first.[/quote]

Yes the government aka "We the People" have to babysit some people that cannot go through life without being arrested for doing stupid things.

A Police officer has a lot of job security because there will never be a shortage of crime.

There is no shortage of crime because moralists have criminalized personal liberties.

Oh I see it's the moralists fault that people commit violent acts

Police spend the vast majority of their time entrapping motorists, enforcing vice laws (that are entirely unconstitutional) and other "morality" issues. I know cops that have retired and never had to pull their weapon so you're grossly mistaken as to the reality of law enforcement.

BTW, Nibble Nuts, people like Nancy Pelois were put into office because people voted her in. Obama is the President because crazy people voted him into office.

Maybe we need to suffer for awhile until people finally wake up and learn from their stupid mistakes and get rid of these people.

Don't make personal attacks it has no place on a forum, I realize that there are issues that have been on other forums between a couple of you, these issues will not be tolerated. CS quite having the "holier than thou" attitude and Fatbass quit feeding him, he is goading you, I really don't want to ban either of you but the personal attacks have to stop!!!

coyoteslayer wrote:

fatbass wrote:

Police spend the vast majority of their time entrapping motorists, enforcing vice laws (that are entirely unconstitutional) and other "morality" issues. I know cops that have retired and never had to pull their weapon so you're grossly mistaken as to the reality of law enforcement.

I guess it all depends on where they are working. Phoenix, AZ has one of the highest crime rates. I doubt police officers never need to pull their guns. My brother doesn't need to pull his gun on a drunk guy (that has been causing public disturbance) if he's not holding a weapon. He will just simply take them down to the ground and handcuff them.

So what does this have to do with a 'moral' government, quite cherry picking and stay on topic!!!

Yonni wrote:

Don't make personal attacks it has no place on a forum, I realize that there are issues that have been on other forums between a couple of you, these issues will not be tolerated. CS quite having the "holier than thou" attitude and Fatbass quit feeding him, he is goading you, I really don't want to ban either of you but the personal attacks have to stop!!!

Sorry, Pete.

It's just so easy...

fatbass wrote:

Sorry, Pete.

It's just so easy...

Hey I am trying here.... LOL I know wtf did I get myself into???

It's just has been months since I got to play with Fatbass's strings. I will be nice to him.

I enjoy the back and forth. Now we just need to get Pros' nemesis K2Muskie to join up and then we could have some real fireworks. Just like 4th of July.

Pete wrote:

The first European immigrants to North American were largely those disaffected people whose religious and moral values differed from the established, official state religions of the various European states. These people were a mixture of religious converts, anarchists and nonconformists who came here to to escape having a value system that differed from their own imposed upon them by the governments that they left behind.

Now here we are, two, three and four hundred years later with a government that is once again playing the paternalistic and authoritarian role as the enforcer of the moral values of the majority. Smoke pot or gamble or become a prostitute and you're no longer a sinner who risks ending up in Hell, you're a criminal who risks ending up in jail.

Oh please, you act like those first people where a bunch of lawless souls. They had laws, regulations, and rules. Ever hear of being put in the stocks? What where the stocks for?

Every society has rules that are acceptable to that society. Included in those rules are moral issues. Now they will differ from one society to another, but they are always there.

coyoteslayer wrote:

It's just has been months since I got to play with Fatbass's strings. I will be nice to him.

Make sure you wash your hands after. Who knows where those strings have been.

No need to be "nice". Just stick to politics without thumping your bibles.

Quote :

Make sure you wash your hands after. Who knows where those strings have been.

Hahaha. I make sure to sterlize myself after the battle is over.

No need to be "nice". Just stick to politics without thumping your bibles.

Well for someone that wants me to stick to only politics then you seem to always talk about those views yourself. Some morals of this country are church related. The founding father were religious men so where do you draw the line with them? It's ironic that you support the Constitution that was written by religious men. They were god-fearing men..

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

I enjoy the back and forth. Now we just need to get Pros' nemesis K2Muskie to join up and then we could have some real fireworks. Just like 4th of July.

We have kissed and made up. I would welcome her her anytime.

When 'do-gooders' make vices illegal of course the crime rate will increase. The sole purpose of the government it to protect our freedoms. There are three realms in every society: 1]Religious Realm 2]Economic Realm 3]Political Realm. The overlap of each other, when liberty is desired, must be kept at a minimum. Justice is the absence of injustice; it is achieved by securing individual rights. A right is what you may do, an injustice is what you may not do.

The government is NOT capable of preventing crime. There are three Proper roles of government: 1]Secure Rights 2]Maintain Order 3]Restrain Crime. If the government goes beyond that it has usurped tyranny over the people.

What needs to be the creed of lovers of freedom: Restrain crime, do NOT force good acts.

proutdoors wrote:

.....Justice is the absence of injustice; it is achieved by securing individual rights. A right is what you may do, an injustice is what you may not do.

........There are three Proper roles of government: 1]Secure Rights 2]Maintain Order 3]Restrain Crime. If the government goes beyond that it has usurped tyranny over the people........

Please give an example.

coyoteslayer wrote:

proutdoors wrote:

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

I enjoy the back and forth. Now we just need to get Pros' nemesis K2Muskie to join up and then we could have some real fireworks. Just like 4th of July.

We have kissed and made up. I would welcome her her anytime.

When 'do-gooders' make vices illegal of course the crime rate will increase. I don't believe crime rate will go down just because you legalize something like Marijuana. Sure it wouldnt be a crime to smoke it, but people would still commit crime.The sole purpose of the government it to protect our freedoms. There are three realms in every society: 1]Religious Realm 2]Economic Realm 3]Political Realm. The overlap of each other, when liberty is desired, must be kept at a minimum. Justice is the absence of injustice; it is achieved by securing individual rights. A right is what you may do, an injustice is what you may not do.

The government is NOT capable of preventing crime. There are three Proper roles of government: 1]Secure Rights 2]Maintain Order 3]Restrain Crime. If the government goes beyond that it has usurped tyranny over the people.

What needs to be the creed of lovers of freedom: Restrain crime, do NOT force good acts.


If you legalize Marijuana then all we would be raising is a generation of potheads and drug addicts. Most of them won't be able to keep a job because they were to busy getting stoned the night before. Most drug users that I know are this way and they party all night and sleep during the day. Then we will have more people living on welfare.

I would rather have a productive society than an unproductive one

Hey CS ever heard of prohibition? That was a very succesful project wasn't it? Our "war on drugs" is just another prohibition. Proponents of prohibition made the same arguments for outlawing alcohol as you are making for drugs. If people want something they will get it wether it's legal or not. The war on drugs doesn't stop anyone from using drugs anymore than prohibition stopped people from drinking alcohol. If we forget the lessons history has taught us we will most definitely repeat our past mistakes. Sounds to me like you have little to no experience with these outlawed substances. It sounds like you are only regurgitating what the polticians and other leaders are telling you.

Quote :

Hey CS ever heard of prohibition? That was a very succesful project wasn't it? Our "war on drugs" is just another prohibition. Proponents of prohibition made the same arguments for outlawing alcohol as you are making for drugs. If people want something they will get it wether it's legal or not. The war on drugs doesn't stop anyone from using drugs anymore than prohibition stopped people from drinking alcohol. If we forget the lessons history has taught us we will most definitely repeat our past mistakes. Sounds to me like you have little to no experience with these outlawed substances. It sounds like you are only regurgitating what the polticians and other leaders are telling you.

So your answer is just legalize it, and that will be the cure of all the problems. That is the dumbest idea that I ever heard. Why would it be so great to just legalize drugs? We haven't really did much on the war on drugs otherwise we would be kicking the drug cartel in Mexico in the arse along with Hugo Chavez and others. We also need to have people in drug rehab to help them with their problems.

I know you would pipe up on this issue because you have admited to smoking it on the other forum so of course you will be in favor of it.

We should just legalize Prostitution while we are at. Bill Clinton would have loved that when he was in office. I'm sure many wives would be favor of their husbands getting a little action away from home right? I know what will say........People cheat anyways so why not legalize it because they are going to do it anyways.