Will Washington's Failures Lead To Second American Revolution?

A really interesting article I found.
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/542171/201007301830/Will-Washingtons-Failures-Lead-To-Second-American-Revolution-.aspx

And states the reason's why we need to be more fearful of the enemy within!

I can see it happening.

I have thought for three years now, that we are headed down the road of revolution. To what end or kind of revolution, I can't rightly say. The country is dividing, more and more people are polarizing to one end or the other. It's much like a splitting wedge for wood cutting IMO. At first it's barely in the wood, the next hit it's driven in the wood a little further, the next hit is still even further, and on the final hit, the log splits in half much like an explosion.

Me, I just hope I'm "ready" if it does happen.

OMG!!!!! Seriously you don't get it do you??? THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE GEORGE W BUSH MANIFESTO that lead us to the bailouts, and the crisis we are in???

Now we are going to jump back on this train as gospel??? Do any of ya "learn any lessons"??

Look, this philosophy got your asses voted out in 08. Keep pushing this paranoid
hogwash and you will soon become the second choice again.

Nothing more than elitist wallstreet drivel.

voiceofreason wrote:

OMG!!!!! Seriously you don't get it do you??? THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE GEORGE W BUSH MANIFESTO that lead us to the bailouts, and the crisis we are in???

Now we are going to jump back on this train as gospel??? Do any of ya "learn any lessons"??

Look, this philosophy got your asses voted out in 08. Keep pushing this paranoid
hogwash and you will soon become the second choice again.

Nothing more than elitist wallstreet drivel.

Maybe you should stay on topic, and answer the question that the title poses....... Better yet, are you afraid to put your own opinion out there on the matter?

Are ya daft???

Did my little rant not answer the question???

OK breaking out the Crayons for my boy Willy...

No there will not be a second Revolution... Your side lost the last election... You are the minority...

What the link that Founder so adequately posted amounts to is nothing more than a "Goldman Sach's" why me sob story... No regulation, no laws cause we were all so much better off when W was running the country in to the ground and we don't need them evil Feds in our life..

Shiite Libertarian extremism at it's ever loving best!!!!


It's IDIOCY like this that kept my self imposed exile from this site extremely short

First of all, I am not an idiot, and if you're gonna break out the crayons, for hell's sake, use some better colors.

Thanks for posting you opinion VOR.

Sorry to make that inference Willy... You seem to be one of the few where there is hope!!!!

Snap out of the Matrix Brother!!!!! Free Your Mind!!!

There will be no other choice but a refreshing of the Tree of Liberty soon and VOR, like all of us, will have to decide whether or not to live in chains. Soiunds to me like he's already tried them on and kinda likes the bondage thang.

Patrick Henry FTW!

No, I don't think we're headed for a revolution.

A very valuable attribute of functioning republics is that revolution is institutionalized right into the system. In other words, a complete change of government can happen in just an election or two.

Revolutions (violent ones, anyway) happen when an unpopular government refuses to move aside and is overthrown in a rebellion. It's a little hard to imagine a revolution in a country where (1) the people recently voted in the current government and (2) the people have the choice of voting out the current government in the next upcoming election or two.

Whether you or I like the current administration and congress or not, the people voted them in and, if they change their minds, will vote them out. It's awfully difficult to imagine a revolution occurring when the choice is already in the people's hands.

The country is certainly polarized between the far left and the far right, and the two sides are certainly screaming at each other. But all the polls show that the vast majority of the public pretty much remains firmly entrenched in the middle of the political spectrum, being a bit conservative on economic issues and a bit liberal on social issues — in other words moderate. Moderates, by definition, aren't revolutionaries.

Now, if the current power structure in Washington starts meddling with things, like Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela, things could change. Chavez has rigged elections, rewritten sections of the Venezuelan constitution and pretty much firmly entrenched himself as a dictator who has usurped what was once a democracy. But really, there's no sign of the current players in Washington doing anything even remotely similar to that. This fall, we'll likely see a number of democrats voted out in both the Senate and the House, and I'm certain that they will all leave peacefully.

As I've said in other posts, the U.S., for many, many years has regularly swung back and forth between a moderate conservative government and a moderately liberal government. Obama might be more liberal than Clinton was, and a bit more aggressive about his agenda than Carter, but compared to Johnson or Kennedy or Roosevelt, we just don't have anything even remotely approaching a radical extremist in the White House.

I know that some here consider Obama, Reid and Pelosi to be just shy of Communists, but really, the evidence just doesn't support it — it doesn't even come close. With all due respect to my fellow forum members, the general tone of some on this forum is edging awfully close to falling off the far-right end of the political spectrum and into the soupy morass of paranoia, tunnel vision and clouded judgment.

Fortunately, outside this forum, in the general population of the country, these extreme views are in the distinct minority. The polls indicate that people are getting tired of the wars, the economy and the Democrats, and the pendulum is likely swinging back to the conservatives, and in my opinion, that's good.

A danger that I see, is in far-right, ultra-conservatives pushing a wacky, paranoia-ridden agenda that will taint the entire Republican party as being something that the moderate mainstream majority of Americans don't trust. If, for example, the activist far-right succeeds in nominating one of their own, like Sarah Palin or a figure from the religious right, we'll without a doubt, get four more years of Barack Obama, because the general population of the country just won't go down that particular road.

Back to the point, no we're not heading down the road to revolution (or civil war). We've got an awfully lot of upset people on both sides, and they're certainly screaming — especially the far right. If the right loses the next few elections, I'm sure that the rhetoric will escalate, and we might even have a few more Timothy McVeighs and Randy Weavers to contend with, but fortunately, in my opinion, the public won't follow them down the road of turning the U.S. into a banana republic.

Pete, when elections are stolen through voter fraud and the country's Attorney General won't prosecute the NBP for voter intimidation; when the feds won't enforce border laws and even sues a state to keep them from enforcing their own FEDERAL law; when 45% of middle class wages eventually end up being wasted by a bloated Jabba The Government, all that you said becomes invalid. When the policies of government are in direct conflict with the law and both political parties are simply taking turns chipping away at our liberties, there must be a radical change.

When enough people have had enough there will be widespread conflict and rejection of federal authority in America. You can join VOR in the chains. I won't wear them.

fatbass wrote:

Pete, when elections are stolen through voter fraud and the country's Attorney General won't prosecute the NBP for voter intimidation; when the feds won't enforce border laws and even sues a state to keep them from enforcing their own FEDERAL law; when 45% of middle class wages eventually end up being wasted by a bloated Jabba The Government, all that you said becomes invalid.

Voter fraud in the U.S. is nearly nonexistent, although I suspect you might disagree. (Here you might find company with the far left that still insists the 2000 election was stolen by Bush.) As for the rest of your statements, the people can vote whomever they want into office, and if the people want, for example, a 20-foot wall erected along the U.S.-Mexican border, we can vote liked-minded people into office. The problem is that it's only the minority that want something like that. Most are much more moderate and nuanced in their opinions.

fatbass wrote:

When the policies of government are in direct conflict with the law and both political parties are simply taking turns chipping away at our liberties, there must be a radical change.

And if radical change is what the majority wants, the majority will vote for radical change. In the last presidential election, however, the change they apparently wanted was something else altogether different.

fatbass wrote:

When enough people have had enough there will be widespread conflict and rejection of federal authority in America. You can join VOR in the chains. I won't wear them.

Unfortunately, until a majority of the public feels like you, you're going to find yourself predicting a revolution that only a handful of people believe in. If and when everyone catches up to you, there will be no need of a revolution — except at the ballot box.

A revolution is under way now! WTH are you guys talking about? The progressives are in full revolt and are fundamentally transforming America. I truly hope and pray a bloody revolt or resistance to the revolt NEVER happens. While I have less faith in the election process than Pete, I do believe that the best, the only valid, way to RESTORE this nation to her Principles is through peaceful means.

Awwww...Idealists are so cute!

fatbass wrote:

Awwww...Idealists are so cute!

Are you referring to me?

I am no idealist, but I strongly believe a bloody conflict would cause even more damage than what is being inflicted by the revolutionaries in charge right now. If we resort to such tactics, the odds lean toward anarchy which most often leads to full fledged Tyranny. Not exactly the outcome I wish for my children and future grandchildren.

So is it possible to have a revolution without violence? I believe so and Pete mentioned one of the most effective ways, to vote. Sorry VOR I wasn't thinking extreme violence as a way to revolutionize this country, sorry to disappoint that I didn't fit into another one of your stereotypes. Another way is education, we are quite fortunate to have the internet to share stuff that we find that piques our interests, and many other resources.
There are 2 revolutions occuring, the progessives and the tea parties, both are trying to change things to the way they believe, both have huge followings, both believe they are "right", both believe they can change things, both will continue to fight till the end.

proutdoors wrote:

The progressives are in full revolt and are fundamentally transforming America.

I agree that change is taking place, and it's not where I'd choose to go, but do you really think that it's a new phenomenon?

The change coming from the federal government is probably less than in Johnson's Great Society and certainly less than Roosevelt's New Deal. What I tend to see is that Washington rarely leads and, instead, follows. American society was poised to accept the New Deal in the '30s, and a change in the country's attitudes in race and poverty ushered in Johnson's social activist legislation of the '60s.

Obama's health reform bill nearly happened in the Clinton administration, and has been poised to occur for a couple of decades — it was just waiting for the alignment of a Democratic Congress and White House. The massive federal deficit spending (the stimulus packages) would likely have happened in a Bush administration too.

I'm not arguing that Bush was conservative, but I guess I am arguing that society is changing and is, for better or worse, inclined to accept these changes to our laws, our culture and our place in the world.

Some of us don't like the changes on a personal level, and some of us would make good arguments against them from an economic and common sense standpoint, but I'm not sure that I'd blame the progressives who are in power now as pushing us down a road the country isn't prepared to travel. Instead, I think I'd place the blame and responsibility for what these progressive are doing on the majority of the public that elected them into office.

I agree with Pro in that I hope the path were on does not lead to a bloody armed conflict. I think it can and should be settled at the ballot box. I have had fleeting thoughts for some time now wondering if this country wasn't headed down a path that is similar to the path that brought us to the first civil war. If one looks at things in that perspective there are many parralells to the political disconnections that led to the civil war and modern political disconnects. The population at that time was very split when it came to states rights and federal authority with slavery being the catalyst issue. In todays world it is the same issue of states rights vs fed authority. One can only wonder what current issue might be the catalyst illegal immigration perhaps. I have for a long time believed it would be guns,abortion,or gay rights issues. The SC has pretty much settled the questions on guns and abortions. The only time these 2 come up is right around election time when the pols pander to their constituents. We still have some progress to make in the arena of equalising gay relationships in the realm of civil law but I don't believe it has the potential to propel the country into civil war. Illegal immigration is a very explosive issue that I believe does have the potential to propel the country into another civil war. I really hope it doesn't go that way but I am fearful that it could and being a veteran that has seen with his own eyes the horrors of a war zone I hope we are able to find a resolution without my children or grandchildren having to witness those same horrors.

proutdoors wrote:

The current climate, and corruption, in Washington is ripe for a move to Dictatorship. Even if is accomplished by 'popular' vote. IN the words of the POTUS, we are in unprecedented waters.

I'll disagree with you on that one. With peaks and valleys, the federal government has been expanding for over 200 years. We've just got more of the same going on now. I guess it depends on how you define dictatorship, but I seriously doubt that we're headed for anybody seizing power and refusing to leave when voted out of office.

proutdoors wrote:

I believe you are looking at the symptoms rather than the actual causes.

Interesting. I was thinking that you were doing the same. To me, changes in society's viewpoints and attitudes usually prompt political changes. In a republic, it's difficult for government to push the public into places where they're not prepared to go. If it attempts to do so, it's voted out of office. Either way, in part, it might be a chicken and egg sort of question.

I don't like it, but I suspect that we're headed where Europe is already at — we're just 30 or 40 years behind them. The majority of the public, for whatever reason, looks to the government to solve their problems and to ensure their well being.

American individualism and self-determination is alive and well here in the West, but much of the rest of the country seems eager to embrace the nanny state. They either don't realize or don't care that heading down this road dooms the country to economic and moral stagnation where everyone loses. In other words, we give up control of our own destiny, and become vulnerable to events that we're no longer capable of controlling.

Europe has lived under our protective umbrella since World War II, but unlike Europe, we won't have a patron on the other side of the ocean to look after us.

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

Illegal immigration is a very explosive issue that I believe does have the potential to propel the country into another civil war.

I don't think it will do that anytime soon, but I see it being a huge issue with major long-term implications — almost all of which are bad.

The biggest problem I see is the huge number of Latino immigrants changing the demographic composition of, especially, the southwest (including Utah) in a way that makes it less imperative for these immigrants to fully integrate into the American melting pot.

The last thing that we need in this country is another chronic underclass whose status is passed from one generation to another. It's taken the country 150 years to finally make good, substantial and permanent progress in integrating blacks into the cultural and economic mainstream. Yet here we are again, standing around twiddling our thumbs while millions of Spanish-speaking people are moving in in such large numbers as to form a brand new, subculture.

What I fear is that we might be setting the stage for enormous class problems that will exist between relatively rich and prosperous Anglo American and the less educated, less affluent and less prosperous children of Hispanic immigrants who will, if the projected trends hold true, outnumber Anglos in several states within 50 years.

If this happens, American culture in those state will begin to resemble Mexico and Guatemala more than California, Arizona or Utah. I like Mexico, and like to visit there, but I most definitely don't want Mexico's problems transported north of the border.

We just don't need a situation like exists in Canada, where there's constant tension between the French- and English-speaking residents. Or worse still, like exists between Bosians and Serbs or Basques and Spaniards. We've been extraordinarily lucky in this country to have avoided these class and ethnic problems by ensuring that immigrants didn't arrive in such numbers as to overwhelm the melting pot.

Looking down the road 50 years, we just might have a radically different demographic makeup that actually might make class warfare and ethic-based violence a real possibility. What's frustrating is that the federal government is failing to do its job in enforcing our immigration laws and doing almost nothing to head off this potential disaster in the making

Pete wrote:

American individualism and self-determination is alive and well here in the West, but much of the rest of the country seems eager to embrace the nanny state. They either don't realize or don't care that heading down this road dooms the country to economic and moral stagnation where everyone loses. In other words, we give up control of our own destiny, and become vulnerable to events that we're no longer capable of controlling.

WOW!!

Thank you.

Pete wrote:

Looking down the road 50 years, we just might have a radically different demographic makeup that actually might make class warfare and ethic-based violence a real possibility. What's frustrating is that the federal government is failing to do its job in enforcing our immigration laws and doing almost nothing to head off this potential disaster in the making

And I talk about a future revolution in the States, and get flamed....

In all seriousness, +1 from my camp.

I agree with Pete's earlier post. Our generation is becoming irrelevant faster and faster... The world is changing, what we as old Conservatives, Liberals, Libertarians
and Independent Thinkers must do is adapt. Won't be too long and we will all be our parents. Old Fuddy Duddy's that are out of touch and reality.

I wouldn't predict a Revolution what I will predict is an Evolution. Some of this will be good, as in technology and medical advances that could save millions of lives. Some of the changes, depending on where you are looking from, may not be so good, Gay Marriage, Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants and a continued push towards a Global Socialist civilization. I don't support any of the latter but the trend in my humble opinion is headed that way. This will be exacerbated by the Tea Party Gaining power and swinging the ultra Conservative pendulum so far to the right that the backlash in 6 years will be incredible... You think the Libs and the young people hated W Bush??? Wait until the next incarnation of the GOP gets done dicking the country up!!!

Hopefully one day both party's will bottom the hell out and we can start over. Get decent people from each camp to get to work and handle the country's business

voiceofreason wrote:

I agree with Pete's earlier post. Our generation is becoming irrelevant faster and faster... The world is changing, what we as old Conservatives, Liberals, Libertarians
and Independent Thinkers must do is adapt. Won't be too long and we will all be our parents. Old Fuddy Duddy's that are out of touch and reality.

I wouldn't predict a Revolution what I will predict is an Evolution. Some of this will be good, as in technology and medical advances that could save millions of lives. Some of the changes, depending on where you are looking from, may not be so good, Gay Marriage, Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants and a continued push towards a Global Socialist civilization. I don't support any of the latter but the trend in my humble opinion is headed that way. This will be exacerbated by the Tea Party Gaining power and swinging the ultra Conservative pendulum so far to the right that the backlash in 6 years will be incredible... You think the Libs and the young people hated W Bush??? Wait until the next incarnation of the GOP gets done dicking the country up!!!
Hopefully the next GOP or Dem president that gets voted in is one that wants to bring America back to were is should be. And is not afraid to do it.
Hopefully one day both party's will bottom the hell out and we can start over. Get decent people from each camp to get to work and handle the country's business

I couldn't agree more with the last statement although its sad that that is what it might come down to. How bad it gets before they do bottom out is what scares me.