Do away with concealed carry permits?

State rep. Stephen Sandstrom wants to introduce legistation to do away with concealed firearm permits for Utahns. Under his plan, anyone who can legally own a weapon could carry it concealed without a permit, similar to Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona.

Any thoughts on the likelyhood of this passing? Should we move in this direction? I'm inclined to believe that it won't pass, but if it did it wouldn't cause a crime wave like my fellow liberals fear. Under his plan, permits would still be available for people who want them for reciprocity reasons.

I think it will probably pass and should. I don't see why we should have to have a permit to excercise our 2nd amendment rights. Especially when one considers the fact that only law abiding,upstanding citizens are the only ones that get permits. The criminal element carries concealed without a permit because they are indifferent to the laws of the land.

Awesome, I hope it passes. I find it hilarious when libs say that crime increases with looser gun laws but the opposite is the truth, crime drops when the normal Joe blow is able to carry, it deters criminals due to the possibility that Joe could be carrying.

If this did pass, what would its affect be on archery hunters? Right now archery hunters can't carry without a concealed weapons permit, would you be allowed to if this bill passes?

We had this debate some time ago on the utah forum. I believe it will pass as Arizona, Vermont, and Alaska have passed similar bills. I think it should pass, but there needs to be more education on the legality of carrying a firearm. This isn't the wild west anymore you can't duke it out with someone on the street and when the other guy loses say "oh it was a fair fight sheriff" There are a ton of legal rules that you have to follow. I am not worried about the crime rate going up, mainly because it won't.

jahan wrote:

If this did pass, what would its affect be on archery hunters? Right now archery hunters can't carry without a concealed weapons permit, would you be allowed to if this bill passes?

I think archers will still be able to carry if this passes considering the line of thinking behind it is a permit should not be required to carry a weapon. Not to mention the invreasing number of grow operations on public ground. In fact I noticed a subtle change in the proclamation this year regarding loaded weapons in vehicles also. I will go and read it again and when I find it I will post the quote here.


Loaded firearms in a vehicle
Utah Code §§§§ 76-10-502, 76-10-504, 76-10-505 and 76-10-523
You may not carry a loaded firearm in
or on a vehicle unless you meet all of the following
conditions:
• You own the vehicle or have permission
from the vehicle’s owner.
• The firearm is a handgun.
• You are 18 years of age or older.

Which is actually a big change.Before even when hunting with a revolver it had to be deemed unloaded when in the vehicle. It appears that is no longer the case.

Some of us have carried for years without permits.

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

jahan wrote:

If this did pass, what would its affect be on archery hunters? Right now archery hunters can't carry without a concealed weapons permit, would you be allowed to if this bill passes?

I think archers will still be able to carry if this passes considering the line of thinking behind it is a permit should not be required to carry a weapon. Not to mention the invreasing number of grow operations on public ground. In fact I noticed a subtle change in the proclamation this year regarding loaded weapons in vehicles also. I will go and read it again and when I find it I will post the quote here.


Loaded firearms in a vehicle
Utah Code §§§§ 76-10-502, 76-10-504, 76-10-505 and 76-10-523
You may not carry a loaded firearm in
or on a vehicle unless you meet all of the following
conditions:
• You own the vehicle or have permission
from the vehicle’s owner.
• The firearm is a handgun.
• You are 18 years of age or older.

Which is actually a big change.Before even when hunting with a revolver it had to be deemed unloaded when in the vehicle. It appears that is no longer the case.

That is to reflect the change in the state law. Any non-restricted adult can carry a loaded pistol in their vehicle without a permit as of last year.

The few times that I have taken the opportunity to open carry. It seems like there is always someone or several people who are surprised to see a firearm ON somebody. Some just give me stink eye, others try to tell me that I am breaking law.

The times that I have open carried a pistol have all been while hiking for leisure, so maybe it's the hippy hikers that are surprised by it. My concern with this purposed law, doesn't have anything to do with the law itself, rather the PR that follows it. I personally get tired of arguing with or having to explain to someone, that I am well within my rights to carry openly, regardless of how that makes them feel. I hope that if the law passes, it gets good enough PR, media coverage, whatever, so that masses know what's going on.

So you have only open carried while hiking and other hikers gave you grief over it? That is kinda suprising to me. I have open carried while hiking and camping a few times and never had much more than a second glance. In town I NEVER have open carried while out of uniform because I see it as a tactical disadvantage and a way to draw unwanted attention. I've looked at the opencarry.org website a few times and they seem to be a bunch of attention whores to me. I have carried a concealed pistol for many years now and never had it come unconcealed, intentional or not.

If the law passes it will be for concealed carry so if it is being done properly there should be no reason for PR because no one will be the wiser. Open carry is already legal (ill advised in my opinion but legal none the less).

I agree with ScottyP open carry can put you at a disadvantage in the public.

Yes, Scotty I have gotten grief for open carrying. Maybe it's those uppity Ogden-ites or something, but whatever..... I only open carry whilst hiking or camping.

As far as concealment goes, I still think some PR would be in order. Along the lines of, "hey mr. criminal!, everybody and anybody could be carrying now, maybe you oughtta reconsider." That's all I was suggesting as far as PR for the law, but I also think the public is ill-informed when it comes to gun laws, as I have witnessed in my own travels.

shotgunwill wrote:

Yes, Scotty I have gotten grief for open carrying. Maybe it's those uppity Ogden-ites or something, but whatever..... I only open carry whilst hiking or camping.

As far as concealment goes, I still think some PR would be in order. Along the lines of, "hey mr. criminal!, everybody and anybody could be carrying now, maybe you oughtta reconsider." That's all I was suggesting as far as PR for the law, but I also think the public is ill-informed when it comes to gun laws, as I have witnessed in my own travels.

Hell my neighbors look at me weird when they see me carrying my guns in from the truck. I had one neighbor that accused me of trying to turn her kid into a serial killer because I was using my circular saw to cut up an elk in my driveway and her kid was staring at me with bloodlust in his eyes.

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

Hell my neighbors look at me weird when they see me carrying my guns in from the truck. I had one neighbor that accused me of trying to turn her kid into a serial killer because I was using my circular saw to cut up an elk in my driveway and her kid was staring at me with bloodlust in his eyes.

LOLZ

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

because I was using my circular saw to cut up an elk in my driveway

Where you from again?

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Pete wrote:

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Thats right a circular saw. I don't have a band saw and I was in a hurry to get it cut into small enough pieces to fit into coolers before the meat went bad.

Pete wrote:

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Honestly, knowing luv2fsh&hnt the way I do, I'm suprised he didn't do it with a sawzall.....

shotgunwill wrote:

Pete wrote:

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Honestly, knowing luv2fsh&hnt the way I do, I'm suprised he didn't do it with a sawzall.....

I don't have a sawzall or I probly would have. I think it would be easier to use than a circular. I can't believe a guy that plays with poop 40 hrs a week is trying to make fun of me. I can't believe you guys don't use power saws to dismantle a carcass. The professional butchers use band saws and stuff.

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

shotgunwill wrote:

Pete wrote:

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Honestly, knowing luv2fsh&hnt the way I do, I'm suprised he didn't do it with a sawzall.....

I don't have a sawzall or I probly would have. I think it would be easier to use than a circular. I can't believe a guy that plays with poop 40 hrs a week is trying to make fun of me. I can't believe you guys don't use power saws to dismantle a carcass. The professional butchers use band saws and stuff.

I just keep envisioning the kids faces when you are cutting up an animal with a circular saw.

I think he would have helped if his ma would have let him instead of constantly shooing him away from the window.

Was the saw at least a worm drive????

voiceofreason wrote:

Was the saw at least a worm drive????

Nope just a good ole Craftsman circular saw.

Good one Larry !!

As far as pulling the Concealed Carry Permits.....I think the CCP has always been a waste of time, effort and money. Obviously it has never been set up as a gun training, shooting or safety feature. These are mostly the reasons I have never pursued getting the permit, along with the fact that everytime I buy a firearm from a firearms dealer they have all the info they need on me anyhow. I don't feel like giving it up anymore than I have to.

As far as 'open carry', I do open carry when I'm not around too many people, and then I also carry concealed when I think it's necessary. Always have a loaded one in the vehicle when I'm with my family.

In Phoenix, open carry is a big deal, stand in line at a fast food joint and see handguns sticking out of people's pants and coat pockets, motorcycle guy's are packing, even guys on bicycle's are packing. I really didn't mind seeing the guns exposed, I guess it could be unsettling for certain people. We all (most of us) have a right to pack, I would prefer to be a little more discreet and not show my cards unless necessary.

luv2fsh&hnt wrote:

shotgunwill wrote:

Pete wrote:

A circular saw?

You know, people might laugh, but there's just no better way to cut up a 2x4-shaped elk than with carpentry tools.

Honestly, knowing luv2fsh&hnt the way I do, I'm suprised he didn't do it with a sawzall.....

I don't have a sawzall or I probly would have. I think it would be easier to use than a circular. I can't believe a guy that plays with poop 40 hrs a week is trying to make fun of me. I can't believe you guys don't use power saws to dismantle a carcass. The professional butchers use band saws and stuff.

The blade is everything. Did you use a rip or fine tooth?