Another nail in the Obamacare coffin.

anecdotal bs

lefty

fatbass wrote:

lefty wrote:

BETTER YET - outlaw the health insurance companies

lefty

Better yet, keep the gov't OUT of health care altogether. 60-90% of health care could be performed by PAs if not for gov't regulations.

Read this:

http://townhall.com/columnists/johncgoodman/2011/10/22/keeping_poor_people_poor

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Health care costs started climbing because of government regulations that were written by the AMA starting 100 years ago.

lefty wrote:

anecdotal bs

lefty

I may have anecdotal evidence but at least it's not just wishful thinking. Look up how long the wait is for surgery in ANY country other than America.

Lefty you have your head so far in the sand you would argue with us even if we disguised a liberal view point as our own. I didn't get any of what I just said in my last post from any news media, or even the internet. I got it all from personal experience. From my part time experience as a canuck I personally knew a guy who fell off of the top of the trailer of his big rig and injured his shoulder. He tore some ligaments that needed to be repaired through surgery. Well guess what he had to wait a year and a half let me say that again a year and a half he had to wait to get surgery. By that time everything had healed but not the right way it was suppose to, because it wasn't fixed within a timely manner. Now he can not move his arm above his chest and within a few years he will completely loose the use of his arm. Now you go and tell him how well socialized medicine works. If he lived in the United States of America his shoulder would have been fixed promptly and the right way. I don't care what fox news, cnn, or any other news media or anybody says. I know for a fact that socialized medicine does not work.

sorry bout your friend but I doubt you know the entire story . . we always hear about these stories from republicans . . everybody else says the health care programs work just fine . . sure there's issues, but hell im waiting 3-4 weeks to get my yearly physical . . medicare caught and has treated my dad's 2 cancers, theres my story, why not medicare for all and eliminate the immoral profit motive?


lefty

ps wait till you have to deal with an insurance company for a major illness, its hell, and they are devils

AND THERE IT IS!

IMMORAL PROFIT MOTIVE.

So you believe that inventors of new lifesaving machines, techniques, drugs and services or maybe doctors should all just work for minimum wage?
Do you not understand what motivates real innovation?

Please write another chapter in your fairy tale book about how altruism and poverty are the real motivators of innovation.

thats right, it is immoral when it comes to healing my father's cancer . . not when we sell you karaoke tapes and bass plugs

lefty

lefty wrote:

thats right, it is immoral when it comes to healing my father's cancer . . not when we sell you karaoke tapes and bass plugs

lefty

You smell like paint, bro.

clever comeback . . .

lefty

GO BACK TO BUSINESS SCHOOL AND LOOK UP WHAT 'PROFIT' IS . .

lefty

fatbass wrote:

AND THERE IT IS!

IMMORAL PROFIT MOTIVE.

So you believe that inventors of new lifesaving machines, techniques, drugs and services or maybe doctors should all just work for minimum wage?
Do you not understand what motivates real innovation?

Please write another chapter in your fairy tale book about how altruism and poverty are the real motivators of innovation.

lefty wrote:

GO BACK TO BUSINESS SCHOOL AND LOOK UP WHAT 'PROFIT' IS . .

lefty

fatbass wrote:

AND THERE IT IS!

IMMORAL PROFIT MOTIVE.

So you believe that inventors of new lifesaving machines, techniques, drugs and services or maybe doctors should all just work for minimum wage?
Do you not understand what motivates real innovation?

Please write another chapter in your fairy tale book about how altruism and poverty are the real motivators of innovation.

Here is the definition of profit according to websters dictionary
1
: a valuable return : gain
2
: the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions; especially : the excess of the selling price of goods over their cost
3
: net income usually for a given period of time
4
: the ratio of profit for a given year to the amount of capital invested or to the value of sales
5
: the compensation accruing to entrepreneurs for the assumption of risk in business enterprise as distinguished from wages or rent

Money is not evil, making money off of something you have invented is not evil. I am sorry lefty but those in the healthcare industry need to be paid accordingly. They go to school for longer than most which ends up costing them more and they have a higher stress job. You aren't going to find quality people who will do that for minimum wage.

i agree, everybody in the healthcare industry deserves all they make and more, that doesnt mean you sell shares, and pay dividends - THATS THE PROFIT !

if you have a business, and you have gross revenues of 5.6 million, you pay 5.5 million in salaries and other costs, you have a profit of 100,000 . .

if you think non-profits dont pay great salaries, think again!

lefty

hmm interesting http://influencealley.nationaljournal.com/2011/10/obama-rakes-in-more-health-car.php

and that proves. . . . . . .ohh yeah abso-{no f-bombs}-lutely nuttin


maybe they just know hes gonna win again!

lefty

lefty wrote:

and that proves. . . . . . .ohh yeah abso-{no f-bombs}-lutely nuttin


maybe they just know hes gonna win again!

lefty

If he wins it's because he spent more CORPORATE and WALL STREET donations than the other candidates just like the flea partiers in the OWS are railing against.

How do you get that tongue to work the words outta both sides of your mouth at once?

red herring

lefty

lefty wrote:

red herring

lefty

Seriously? BHO outspent all other presidential candidates and won last election. He garnered the most $$$ from Wall St of all candidates. How is this not the heart of the problem that OWS is protesting?

u were ranting about healthcare, not wall street donations . . start a new topic

hey ya gotta play the game . . that and I never said the Pres was perfect, but he sure beates the hell out of any of the disgusting freaks the repooplinuts are throwing out there for 2012 . . the only problem for us lefties is hes too damn conservative

lefty

lefty wrote:

u were ranting about healthcare, not wall street donations . . start a new topic

hey ya gotta play the game . . that and I never said the Pres was perfect, but he sure beates the hell out of any of the disgusting freaks the repooplinuts are throwing out there for 2012 . . the only problem for us lefties is hes too damn conservative

lefty

If you have no intelligent answer, dodge the question. Typical fleabagger.

stay on point repooplinut

lefty

Anyone with a business will tell you that the passage of obamacare (and its unknown contents) forced a hiring freeze. Here is what most of us have known in graph form for those with problems seeing the obvious.

I believe the person who made up this chart (and you by inference) has committed the Post Hoc logical fallacy:


A Post Hoc is a fallacy with the following form:

A occurs before B.
Therefore A is the cause of B.

The Post Hoc fallacy derives its name from the Latin phrase "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." This has been traditionally interpreted as "After this, therefore because of this." This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that one event causes another simply because the proposed cause occurred before the proposed effect. More formally, the fallacy involves concluding that A causes or caused B because A occurs before B and there is not sufficient evidence to actually warrant such a claim.


I don't believe you have made the case that the passing of the Affordable Care Act actually caused a hiring freeze. There must be a thousand factors that have an effect on nationwide hiring trends.

lefty

lefty wrote:

I believe the person who made up this chart (and you by inference) has committed the Post Hoc logical fallacy:


A Post Hoc is a fallacy with the following form:

A occurs before B.
Therefore A is the cause of B.

The Post Hoc fallacy derives its name from the Latin phrase "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc." This has been traditionally interpreted as "After this, therefore because of this." This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that one event causes another simply because the proposed cause occurred before the proposed effect. More formally, the fallacy involves concluding that A causes or caused B because A occurs before B and there is not sufficient evidence to actually warrant such a claim.


I don't believe you have made the case that the passing of the Affordable Care Act actually caused a hiring freeze. There must be a thousand factors that have an effect on nationwide hiring trends.

lefty

You have your head deeply embedded in your hiney. Show just one other factor that occurred at the end of March, 2010. Then, read the following:

"...President Obama has another, morefundamental problem of even greater magnitude. The nation’s employers regularly list Obamacare as either the number one or two reason they do not hire more employers. They cite uncertainties and increased expenses of meeting and paying for government standards for health plans."

http://medinnovationblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/paradox-of-zero-jobs-health-care-and.html

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/40124

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/hidden_jobs_killer_nfudBPzZv0PL5qAo82bArM

http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2011/07/obamacare-stalled-the-economy/

http://www.houstonsun.com/2011/08/25/obamacare-hurts-president-obama/

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/07/economic-recovery-stalled-after-obamacare-passed

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2743421/posts

Etc...

wow it seems all your repooplinut links are as full of dogshit as you are:

The CBO Rebuts Republican Claims About the Affordable Care Act

The CBO knocks down the Republican claim that the health care legislation passed last year is a "job-killer." The CBPP explains:

No Evidence for House Republican Charge that Health Reform Is a “Job-Killer”, by Chad Stone and Paul N. Van de Water:

Health reform will change the American economy in many ways over the next few decades, but it will not significantly change the number of jobs or the unemployment rate. A nonpartisan economic assessment by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) finds a variety of possible labor market effects, some positive and some negative, but nothing that justifies the inflammatory “job-killing” rhetoric invoked in House Republicans’ efforts to repeal the legislation.

House Republican claims that the legislation (the Affordable Care Act) is a “job-killer” imply that health reform measures will be a major drag on the economy because they will allegedly increase employers’ costs. But these claims are not supported by evidence, and they are at odds with leading non-partisan assessments of how health reform legislation will affect the economy and labor markets. ...

Unlike House Republicans’ claims that health reform is a “job killer,” CBO’s assessment that health reform will have only modest effects (both positive and negative) on U.S. labor markets is based on an examination of the evidence. ...

The CBO also notes that the Republicans' plans to repeal the Affordable Care Act will cause the federal deficit to increase by qa substantial amount.


http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2011/01/cbo-rebuts-republican-claims-about-the-affordable-care-act.html


just because some conservative blogger says it, doesnt make it true, actually it almost guarantees its total horseshit...

because thats all you got, lies and innuendo, and internet rumors . .


lefty

Looks like even the democrats are getting educated.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/10/record_opposition_to_obamacare_in_new_poll.html