Good on Utah

huntingbuddy wrote

Quote :

I never said anything about stay at home moms being lazy or not being worth anything cause they aren't out in the work force. I believe to the contrary, I would rather see more mothers be stay at home moms, I think our country's moral fabric would be in a lot better condition if there were more moms staying home taking care of their children but the is a whole other topic for a different day. I think being a stay at home mom is very noble, I hope my future wife will have the opportunity to be able to do that.

Did I say I was a stay at home mom? Housewife/mother entails all women who keep a home and raise children, regardless of holding a Paying job or not. I'm one of those working-outside-the-home housewife & mother and I work every bit as hard as the ones who stay at home all the time. Right now I'm at home because those bureaucrats in DC can't figure out what to do with our money and every day I worry about which household appropriations I'll have to cut out of my budget to keep food in the pantry.

Living Wage = a wage on which it is possible for a wage earner or an individual and his or her family to live at least according to minimum customary standards. (Random House Dictionary) Minimum customary standards in America do not include living in a cardboard shack and combing the city dumps for food scraps.

TheEverLovelyJennifer, aka TLJ

p.s.VoR -- I am married already.

Me too TLJ Just an expression

Yes, VOR, I am NOT for anarchy! If that shocks you, you're NOT paying attention.

No one should be paid so much as a penny more than what they give in value. In other words, if one only gives $2.34 worth of work per hour, that is the maximum he should be paid. Its all about value exchange. Demanding to be paid at a higher rate than what you produce is theft! Once again, a living wage is a Marxist concept! Tell me, how many nations have been successful implementing the Ten Planks? Living wages and social justice are nothing short of criminal activities perpetrated by the government on behalf of GREEDY citizens! Demanding more than what one EARNS is NOT something to endorse, at least not in this cowboy's opinion.

TheLovelyJennifer wrote:

TheEverLovelyJennifer, aka TLJ

Wouldn't that make you the ELJ......

Just a couple of things.
Utah rejecting Federal money means nothing in terms of Federal spending. I think Indiana has already taken the share we refused. So no matter how much of the money we have sent into the Federal Government that we refuse to take back to spend on our own citizens locally, it will have no effect on the federal debt or spending.
Refusing that money will hurt UT. Foeclosures could rise, famlies could really go without food, medicine, heat or other vital items. True hardships could result to some of your neighbors.
Cutting taxes will not help. There are not enough earnings anymore. With 30% of the country not working steady jobs or working under the table, cutting taxes won't help.
What would help is bringing the jobs back to America. Get Americans working again the way they used to be when we built our own things and there will be several million more people paying taxes.

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Just a couple of things.
Utah rejecting Federal money means nothing in terms of Federal spending. I think Indiana has already taken the share we refused. So no matter how much of the money we have sent into the Federal Government that we refuse to take back to spend on our own citizens locally, it will have no effect on the federal debt or spending.
Refusing that money will hurt UT. Foeclosures could rise, famlies could really go without food, medicine, heat or other vital items. True hardships could result to some of your neighbors.
Cutting taxes will not help. There are not enough earnings anymore. With 30% of the country not working steady jobs or working under the table, cutting taxes won't help.
What would help is bringing the jobs back to America. Get Americans working again the way they used to be when we built our own things and there will be several million more people paying taxes.

So, my neighbor now going on 18 months of unemployment just needs more handouts? So, the fact that he has passed on two different job offers that only paid $45k should just keep holding on? He was once at $60k and has no incentive to get back in there because unemployment pays nearly as much as the job offers. i guess I could become stuck in a rut like that and decide to be a leach on society too if I could earn 90% of a real job by doing nothing too, but then again I would lose all respect for myself as would my whole family.

And what incentive do businesses have to keep their operations here, none they have no incentive to stay here. You want jobs back give the businesses a incentive to do business here, other wise forget about it.

p.s. lowering taxes will help, I will have to do some research later, but before the Great Depression there were some recessions. You know what the presidents did to get the economy back in check they lowered taxes to ridiculous rates and also in turn boosted revenue. Of course we do need to get spending in check no doubt about it. My case in point I bet McDonalds soft drink revenue booms whenever they put their soft drink prices at $1 no matter what the size.

Huge29 wrote:

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Just a couple of things.
Utah rejecting Federal money means nothing in terms of Federal spending. I think Indiana has already taken the share we refused. So no matter how much of the money we have sent into the Federal Government that we refuse to take back to spend on our own citizens locally, it will have no effect on the federal debt or spending.
Refusing that money will hurt UT. Foeclosures could rise, famlies could really go without food, medicine, heat or other vital items. True hardships could result to some of your neighbors.
Cutting taxes will not help. There are not enough earnings anymore. With 30% of the country not working steady jobs or working under the table, cutting taxes won't help.
What would help is bringing the jobs back to America. Get Americans working again the way they used to be when we built our own things and there will be several million more people paying taxes.

So, my neighbor now going on 18 months of unemployment just needs more handouts? So, the fact that he has passed on two different job offers that only paid $45k should just keep holding on? He was once at $60k and has no incentive to get back in there because unemployment pays nearly as much as the job offers. i guess I could become stuck in a rut like that and decide to be a leach on society too if I could earn 90% of a real job by doing nothing too, but then again I would lose all respect for myself as would my whole family.

I don't know where you learned math, but lets do a little review,
UI pays a max of $458 a week, for 13 weeks. That's about $6,000 a year. Lets say there is a 13 week extention. Now we're up to 12K. Collecting all year will result in income of 24K a year, that's about 1/2 of what you said he turned down.
Now maybe your neighbor has found a way to live like he used to on only 24K a year. Good on him.

Paying some not to work is counter productive and does not help anybody.

Then why do Utan's keep re-electing Hatch?

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Huge29 wrote:

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Just a couple of things.
Utah rejecting Federal money means nothing in terms of Federal spending. I think Indiana has already taken the share we refused. So no matter how much of the money we have sent into the Federal Government that we refuse to take back to spend on our own citizens locally, it will have no effect on the federal debt or spending.
Refusing that money will hurt UT. Foeclosures could rise, famlies could really go without food, medicine, heat or other vital items. True hardships could result to some of your neighbors.
Cutting taxes will not help. There are not enough earnings anymore. With 30% of the country not working steady jobs or working under the table, cutting taxes won't help.
What would help is bringing the jobs back to America. Get Americans working again the way they used to be when we built our own things and there will be several million more people paying taxes.

So, my neighbor now going on 18 months of unemployment just needs more handouts? So, the fact that he has passed on two different job offers that only paid $45k should just keep holding on? He was once at $60k and has no incentive to get back in there because unemployment pays nearly as much as the job offers. i guess I could become stuck in a rut like that and decide to be a leach on society too if I could earn 90% of a real job by doing nothing too, but then again I would lose all respect for myself as would my whole family.

I don't know where you learned math, but lets do a little review,
UI pays a max of $458 a week, for 13 weeks. That's about $6,000 a year. Lets say there is a 13 week extention. Now we're up to 12K. Collecting all year will result in income of 24K a year, that's about 1/2 of what you said he turned down.
Now maybe your neighbor has found a way to live like he used to on only 24K a year. Good on him.

Apparently you struggle with math as well.......you omitted food stamps, medicaid, reduced utility bills. And they get to sit around and do nothing, or do some work under the table. Bottom line; the government is taking away incentives for people to be self-reliant.

I wonder, what do YOU suggest that would bring 'back' jobs to America? Are you willing to get RID of corporate taxes, get rid of 99.99% of regulations, get rid of 99.99% of the red tape that businesses have to deal with? If not, then YOU are part of the problem!

FWIW, cutting taxes on the 'wealthy' WILL help. You are correct in asserting that cutting taxes on the lower class will NOT help, mainly because they already do NOT pay taxes now. Reduce taxes and revenues WILL go up. Cut spending and watch businesses start expanding and taking risks again. It is nonsensical to expect businesses to grow or spend capital in the current climate. All the incentives to grow are gone, and there are lots of reasons NOT to expand, such as higher taxes and increased regulations.

Try to stay on topic. The topic is UNEMPLOYMENT, in case you forgot. You want to talk about the other charitable programs start another thread.

A supply sider! How did that work out for you? Did the rich help you out with your sick wife. (Which by the way I am sorry to hear about, blessings on you and yours)
The rich getting tax breaks will do nothing but make the rich richer.
I own a buisness, in fact 3 of them. I pay mega taxes, fees, licenses, permits...
When I get a tax break I keep the money, after all I earned it. I do not "trickle" it down.

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Try to stay on topic. The topic is UNEMPLOYMENT, in case you forgot. You want to talk about the other charitable programs start another thread.

A supply sider! How did that work out for you? Did the rich help you out with your sick wife. (Which by the way I am sorry to hear about, blessings on you and yours)
The rich getting tax breaks will do nothing but make the rich richer.
I own a buisness, in fact 3 of them. I pay mega taxes, fees, licenses, permits...
When I get a tax break I keep the money, after all I earned it. I do not "trickle" it down.

How many employess do you have? Enough to force you to provide health insurance?

I already do. The company pays 100% of the cost too.

Not by force, but by choice. I choose to have my employees not worry about if their child gets sick, or wife, or themselves. In exchange for the worry I have removed from their lives, they are great workers.
Imagine that.

[quote="proutdoors"]

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Try to stay on topic. The topic is UNEMPLOYMENT, in case you forgot. You want to talk about the other charitable programs start another thread. Too funny. You actually think you get to decide the direction a thread goes. Classic.

In case you forgot DID, PRO has his name in green, and he does get to decide which way threads go.....

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Then why do Utan's keep re-electing Hatch?

My statement still stands.

huntingbuddy wrote:

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

The rich getting tax breaks will do nothing but make the rich richer.
I own a buisness, in fact 3 of them. I pay mega taxes, fees, licenses, permits...
When I get a tax break I keep the money, after all I earned it. I do not "trickle" it down.

So you just described just about every other business out there. When they get a tax break every once in a while they hoard the money cause they don't know if they will ever have that money. How about a permanant tax break to help businesses out. I would venture to guess that if you had less taxes on your business you would be more willing to expand and hire.

Why would I do that? That would be a stupid business decision, to hire more people because I had more money, that's stupid.
I will hire more people when I have more work. Why would I hire just because I had the mony to? If I have a work load that my personnel cannot handle, then yes I would hire more, but that would be the only reason.

Workload, not funding.

You sound like the government. "As long as we have this money, lets hire some more people". "There is no additional work to do, but, what the hay, we have the money, lets spend it."

shotgunwill wrote:

Displaced in the Desert wrote:

Why would I do that? That would be a stupid business decision, to hire more people because I had more money, that's stupid. I disagree

I will hire more people when I have more work. And then lay em off, when the work runs out? Why would I hire just because I had the mony to? If I have a work load that my personnel cannot handle, then yes I would hire more, but that would be the only reason.

Of course it depends on his business model. If he made more money by hiring more salesmen or buying more advertising, then he would do so. If he hired more only when customers came to him for his product or service, then he'd wait for a surge in orders to expand.

I'm guessing he owns some payday loan check cashing businesses.

Probably an ambulance chasing lawyer would have been my guess